Greetings Ringing Cedars kin!

I'm going to open up a can of worms here. Or, at least at first sight it may look like worms, but I assure you that for those who can ponder and honestly and openly tackle such a topic...well, your Spirit would reign supreme over the flesh once again, as it was meant to be.

Anastasia says that when a man is intimate with a woman (and I'm not sure this applies to the male masturbation) and feels 'satisfaction' that a spirit is created and suffers monumentally because it cannot embody if the intention was for the end result to be orgasm rather than co-creation. I cried when I read this. I was partly responsible for God only knows how many suffering spirits. And where were they now? What chaos did they cause throughout the years in my personal life, if at all? How do I go cold turkey? Or do I even have to? Was there nothing in between co-creating baby #1 and baby #2, etc.? That didn't feel true to me either. I no longer wanted to violate any spiritually based natural laws as 'written' by the Father (this is what I call God/Creator). So what did I do? For a time I went cold turkey, which, as you can imagine, didn't sit well with my then husband. But occasionally would succumb to this desire I had known for almost all of my life, especially during my ovulating cycle. And after I had my 'fix' I now knew I had created a spirit that was suffering and felt all the worse for it. And during my on again, off again, moments of celibacy my mind began to ponder thoughts of a different nature. I began to realize/understand how women continuously put their sexuality in second place, at best, when she knowingly and feelingly is aware that something just isn't right about this, especially after one bears children. Still, she usually succumbs to the advances of her man as if what she knowingly feels is a figment of her imagination, a musing of a woman that must have something wrong with her if she doesn't find orgasm as pleasurable as her mate. So what are we to do? Look all around you and very very few are happy with their bedroom encounters. Little girls, as young as 11, are having sex. Porn is everywhere to be the mall disguised as sexy lingerie, on TV during daylight hours disguised as soap operas, etc. Ladies, ever wonder why it is advertised everywhere that we must work so hard to bed a man?

Again, I ask you, what are we to do? I will bet money that Anastasia explained to Megre what couples are to do between baby #1 and #2, but the thought of putting the idea out there which promotes non-seminal, non-orgasmic lovemaking, well, that's absurd! Or is it? If this is true Megre's books would not be the least popular with the men and the women would start getting all kinds of crazy ideas, like, well, denying their men and sales would probably drop. And we can't have women denying their men...or can we?

I then received an answer to my contemplations regarding this specific topic via the Space of Love magazine which I receive in the mail every few months. Regina Jensen, Ph.D (Father bless her soul) wrote an article titled How Lao Tzu Had Sex. For those who don't know who he was, he lived more than 2,000 years ago (some say he was a mythological figure) and was a Taoist sage. The article speaks of and I quote, "non-seminal, non-orgasmic intercourse as the most wholesome, loving and bonding form of marital relations." Some of you may have heard of Tantric sex, but this has been distorted as well because between baby #1 and #2 there is intimacy, a high level, very spiritual form of it, but with the orgasm still being an aspect of it. Lao Tzu says, "A person's approach to sexuality is a sign of his level of evolution. Unevolved persons practice ordinary sexual intercourse. Placing all emphasis upon the sexual organs, they neglect the body's other organs and systems. Whatever physical energy is accumulated is summarily discharged, and the subtle energies are similarly dissipated and disordered." Wow! Could this dissipation and disorder of these subtle energies be the grim reaper that stands over the beds of these 'unevolved persons'? It would seem so to me considering the chaos and conflict that couples experience in this sexual circus.

Marnia Robinson who researched Lao Tzu and this topic at great length says, "Where ordinary intercourse is effortful, angelic cultivation is calm, relaxed, quiet, and natural. Where ordinary intercourse unites sex organs with sex organs, angelic cultivation unites spirit with spirit, mind with mind, and every cell of one body with every cell of the other body...Culminating not in dissolution but in integration, it is an opportunity for a man and woman to mutually transform and uplift each other into the realm of bliss and wholeness." So I thought to myself, does this mean that he'll lay in bed with me and actually hold me for a while and won't just roll over and fall asleep as if nothing just happened and as if my giving myself to him in love, spirit, and yes, flesh, was like serving a steak dinner? If having non-seminal and non-orgasmic sex means he will hold me because there is no end to the intimacy, cool, then I'm there! How do I start? What do I have to do? What do WE have to do? The WE is the tricky part, isn't it ladies? HE may not be interested in this WE, in this new antic of yours, this crazy God-forsaken endeavor. And when one can't fit the square peg into the round hole and the square peg refuses to go 'round' then we either go looking for that round one, go it alone, or ignore our beautiful Spirit, replaying the same scene knowing full well the end result. Tough choice to make.

But I tell you, being true to one's Spirit is the only way to go for me as it never lies to me and makes me stronger with my feelings refining themselves to such an extent that I actually begin to trust them. And to the women I say, trust your feelings for they have a great relationship with your Spirit who in turn has a great relationship with the Father. And to the men I say, trust your woman's feelings even if they seem chaotic or conflicting it is only because she is not allowing her Spirit to reign supreme over her flesh. Support her and allow her into her spiritual sexuality. Follow her. She may not know exactly where she is taking the both of you but her feelings will direct her to that sensual bliss you have both been longing for.

I'll get off my soap box now and for those who feel inspired to then check out or click on this link: and read this online 32 page book that explains the Karezza method (means caress in Italian). The touch is IMMENSELY important and for reasons I do not understand men have fallen victim a great deal more than women with respect to the flesh being sovereign over the Spirit. Yet the flesh is important, it plays a vital role and is not to be demeaned but somehow it was hijacked by lust and now needs to be returned to its proper place, so to speak, and it must learn that first and foremost it must be subservient to the Spirit and follow its directives. Flesh should not be king and must be dethroned. Women have a deeper understanding of this I suppose simply because we are not inseminators, but that should not put the men at a disadvantage.

May your lovemaking truly be that...LOVE, may the Spirit of he and she unite as one, before, during, and after this co-creation of pleasure, and may the harmony and balance of such intimacy return to its pristine origins and prevail along with the Good.

Blessings of love...making,

P.S. It was not my intention to insult anyone so I apologize in advance if I have done so.

P.P.S. Please people share your experiences and feelings which may help others. And Kali, could we start another group perhaps titled as I wrote in the subject line - Sex and Co-creation. I have a feeling there would be many members in this group. :-)

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Replies to This Discussion

MMMM. Thank you so much for opening THIS can of worms.. I will read this again thoroughly when I return in a few days and reply to this - I am very passionate about this topic.

Yes - I understand from a 'marketing' point of view that a new group entitled Sex and Co-Creation would attract many members - but that is precisely the energy that perpetuates the debasement of making love and co-creation of another LIFE... . Sex Sells - yes - we all know that. But this is one of the most important topics of discussion that you have raised here and this is precisely where it belongs - this is our most sacred act of co-creation and by keeping this topic held in the bosom of that intention - it actually is an act of co-creation as well - there is a lot behind why I do things the way I do them and that is why it FEELS good here...

However - there are ways to make the discussions very visible to all members and we can do this EASILY to get the same result my love!

Jeanice will be online with this group in a few days and she works very closely with this area- together we will co-create this group OK Mila!

Talk to you in a few days.. I love this can of worms.. love KAli
Thank you Kali for your support of this topic. Its time for discussing it has come and we need to take our heads out of the sand. How wonderful to know that you and your beloved have been practicing this. Your insights will be invaluable.

The name suggestion I made was just because that's what I titled my discussion, but, of course I'm very open to something else that sells yet does not debase.

My intention was to make this discussion visible to all members, but I'm such a novice at navigating these virtual places although I've been on the computer for many years now. I guess I'll always be a novice. lol So, yeah, please put it right under everyone's noses. :-)

I'm glad you like worms Kali, but I think Serena's's more a can of caterpillars soon to be butterflies.

Blessings of Love,
I know I know Mila! Your intention is pure Beautiful one.. i felt that.. . love Kali
Liubomila......this is not a can of is more a can of caterpillars.....soon to be transformed into butterflies.
I will respond to this shortly. It is the pink elephant sitting in everyones life and needs to be discussed with gentle wisdom and strong truths.
These books have been our bibles on this topic. Carl And I have been practicing cultivating sexual energy for 13 years now with non-seminal and non- organismic lovemaking as a way of cultivating energy and healing emotional and physical symptoms. Ie - letting love do its awesome thing..

. These are very subtle realms my friends. which are ongoing, deepening, expanding, experiences for which we are constantly refining, deepening - a dance and a song that is ever evolving.. . and having very human moments along the way of course.
These books are the only books we have ever had on this topic. My views on this topic have expanded (ALOT!) since Anastasia and we are currently moving into a new realm of love that feels like taking conscious space TOGETHER in the act of co-creating LIFE on earth and is THE HUGEST BLESSING OF ALL TIME!!! Derrrrrrrrrrrrr. Why did we not KNOW this before? I mean we all know what to do to make a baby right? another area where we have simply forgotten our power and to have reverence for the sacredness of that power...

But in any case this has certainly been an excellent foundation and we highly recommend the teachings of this Taoist couple.

Click on them to go to Amazon...

I have been writing poetry since I was 12 years old. And when I feel passionate about something, that poetic inspiration in me wells up and overflows and I must write and share. As I share this poem I hope it gives that oh so good feeling of the heart. Enjoy.

Co-Creation's Love

She embraced him tenderly in body, and
His heart melded into her Soul.
Entwined in this circle of love he whispered,
"I love you." She melted but stayed in control.

As they gazed into each others eyes,
Eternal words of love flowed through their stare.
Bonded by love's etheric ring of calm desire,
Two were lifted to planes in Oneness's lair.

Pleasure wasn't forfeited, only refined and expanded,
Her flower and his stem simple conduits of this miracle.
No end took place in this intimacy, in co-creation's love,
For true Love's shrine remained in their hearts as a spectacle.

O' to love like this! To express oneself to him or her like this!
Surely this grandness descends from heaven's bliss.
This is true lovemaking, true pleasure, true soul expression,
Where everything participates in harmony and no-thing is amiss.

A wise woman for bringing this up. It is the most ignored and least talked about.....yet is the purpose of life....true LOVE....and how to express it.
Sex is love as much as food is nurturance. We can see this in the sex lives so many quickly bore of....and the food that is not health promoting and is constantly a thing to be filling ourselves with, but never satisfied.....but food is as fulfilling to our spirits as sex is to love.....temporary sensations, far from complete.

I've always been dismayed at how love is expressed, and how its not talked about in schools, and not taught in to express love, how to keep it, how to recognize it, how to be in love all day, every day your whole life....why not?
Who writes the protocols for schools?
And I've always been horrified by how children are conceived and then born, and then taught to live .....go to school then get a job. I swore by the time I was 10 that I would NEVER conceive that way, NEVER in a hospital! and NEVER in a world where my angel child would ever see cruelty in any shape or form. To this day I'm uninspired to do so still since I've never found a way to ensure the bliss for life for my child.....until Anastasia explained it....and now its too late, but still the world is not improved enough to keep ugliness from my unborn childs eyes and ears.

Anyway Love and its expression is the point of life, and this is what needs to be discussed, practiced and meditated on daily by each one on Earth and expressed by each to each....the new Teaching......Love on Earth. How to make love while running errands, while gardening while making can take place with a glance as the fine filament of love invisible to the eye but clearly felt dances between two people. Then the songs, the music, the dance will begin to flow....the energy of fluidity will be felt amidst each and every one, the flowing ethers will be known within every cell of every body.....then people will know ONENESS.

Ecstasy is a state...our natural live in every moment.....God created this.....why is it so fleeting?

What is called lovemaking is only an appetite that's been filled like hunger for food....and the consummation looks the same, and at the end, the result is the same. I could never discern the difference from my 'man's behavior after making 'love' to me and after eating a Thanksgiving dinner'..... both inducing his desire for sleep I am energized because of my feelings and he wants to sleep....why? If we are both human, why are our responses to lovemaking different? and our desires for affection different? Something was very wrong. I am not food ......especially food for lust. Where is the love in this act?

Yet this is how they treat women....and women (and men) go along until they get bored and look for the spark of 'love' in yet another eye. I've yet to meet a man who can love me all day long.....every day, the way I 'remember' from times 'past'. I've always said....'where I come from'....we do it this way, or that way.....or....this is never done 'where I come from'. I have memories in my soul of the places of Beauty so many of us come from, and I've not forgotten I believe because I am supposed to remember so as to know what to express here (on Earth) to those who will listen.....or.... miracles of miracles.....someone asks.

Let us as mature divine beings talk about this love and lovemaking, in every way possible. Let us express how we want to feel, what we want to see in our lives and in the world.

Thank you Kali yet again Goddess of Light......for being a living example of walking your talk. This is most important to me to have respect for the one walks their talk. You and Carl may help many people by your experience of the past 13 years and I for one would be grateful to hear from you both in your experiences which I will hold with reverence for your sharing and for my learning. Books are fine for a time, but the living books are those who practice this.

We need, all of us on Earth, to learn how 2 people can love each other and stay in love.....when love is real it should NEVER feel remiss not for a moment.
When people are loving each other they are enlivened, in bliss throughout the day every day and more importantly it grows over time......IT GROWS OVER the indication that it is real.
I want to learn about this kind of love making and in our Anastasia movement we all need to have a clear image about how this looks and how to practice this since this love is a state we must live in every hour every the state of LOVE....with each other and for each other which is expressed by affection and caress.

Please Kali ( and Carl) as the Overlighting Deva of this International Cyber Space of Love .....please give us your insights of the past 13 years of how to express love to ones partner and to live in love every day. It must be real because the glow of love shows on your face....I can see it.....and I want that too.
And I would like to look upon a world of people with glowing faces like yours and your kids.

Blessings of love to all
I forgot to say that I've printed out that 32 page book The Karezza Method....and am being blown away....the words and the obvious 'of course!' I feel in every sentence is confirming and validating my feelings of all these years. It is beautifully written with descriptive feeling words to refer one to the feelings within themselves immediately of what they are saying. It is tantric for the soul just reading it. I love it. Mila, I think you are right...this is what is between conception, and for those who cannot to 'make love' and have love with ones partner. Very exciting!
You mean Karezza by William Lloyd?? I've also read that book (more than once :) ) It's just great, I just thought if I could realize what he's describing in his book...that would be endless bliss and joy! OH,how much I wish someday all this will come true and life will be how it should be, filled up with LOVE & LIGHT!!
There once was a time that I fulfilled my carnal desires whenever I pleased. Then I started to realize that if I wanted to learn something, all i needed to do was to look to the animal world. I soon realized that sex wasn't an after party celebration. Though it may be a celebration of something else. Long before I knew what Anastasia had to say about sex, I stopped having it. I decided to save my seed for a growing co-creation. I do very much want to have a child. I have some growing to do before I will. When I am ready and a pure being has found me, and I her, we will have much more important things to do than each other. I would like to learn and experience more. The kundalini energies for healing and awakening. But I sure can't do that at the computer desk.
Raini, how beautiful to know that your youth carries the understanding of a wise elder. Yes, your seed is so very important and not to be cast away frivolously. Regarding animals, I once watched on TV the mating process of dolphins. What was interesting was that even after conception and during the male and female's time together they experienced 'intimacy' by he penetrating her quite often throughout their relationship, but it didn't involve the male 'releasing' into her. This dolphin documentary came to mind as I read the online book I provided the link to above...a must read.

You are on the right path, my friend and because of this I am certain it will be effortless to find your beloved.

Blessings of Love and Light,
Thank you Luibomila. A newborn is as clear as even the most wise of elders. I too have heard of that particular way of the dolphin, It's very interesting. Even If there can be enormous amounts of healing energy in tantric practices, I personally feel that earth is the only body i need to penetrating at the moment. With my fingers and toes that is. Even then, it involves seed. Thank you for the book recommendation, I will check it out as soon as I'm done with the stack of books I have. :)






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